Spreading disinformation

Usually, I don’t criticise other bloggers, even if I disagree vehemently with their opinions. I hold fire mainly out of respect because I know what it feels like to spend a lot of your free time writing for free for, let’s face it, for a small, specialised audience. Most the blogs I read are music-based and are maintained out of passion (I’ve got to sort out a list of links to stuff I read and recommend as soon as I get a chance) and they provide me with inspiration, entertainment and loads of food for thought.
However, on this occasion, I have to take  Philip Sherburne to task for a post that he made about about Italo. It originally appeared on his ‘Informer’ Urge music blog – the MTV download service that’s impossible to use (well for me at least: I tried installing and re-installing the software, updating my Windows Media Player and still nothing  -  and get this, it take’s Urge’s customer support service 72 hours to reply. What are they doing?). In his appraisal of French edit kings and label D*I*R*T*Y, he says the following:
“But what really makes D*I*R*T*Y cooler than any of us is that they chose this cut at all. Any wannabe Disco Stu with a Giorgio Moroder CD and a copy of Ableton Live can churn out a workable Italo edit, and that's precisely what can make the whole nu-disco scene occasionally rather dull—everyone's jacking the same sources…”
This is a gross, inaccurate generalisation, and the fact that it comes from someone who presents himself as an erudite, informed writer makes it even more disappointing. With one sweep of his keyboard, he has dismissed a whole scene that is thriving, mainly thanks to its diversity.
Off the top of my head, when I think of Italo/ nu-disco, whatever you want to call it, it’s obvious that there’s a huge difference between Steve Kotey’s cosmic, dub-heavy Bear Entertainment project, Tyrell’s high-energy pathos and Mandroid’s fusion of 808 Detroit drums and warm melodies?
If anything, the nu-disco scene takes its cue from a wider palette than say, minimal? Indeed, imagine if someone wrote that “that's precisely what can make the whole minimal scene occasionally rather dull—everyone's copying old Dan Bell and Robert Hood records…”
I’m sure Mr Sherburne, who is so heavily involved in this scene, would find this an inaccurate generalisation and would want to set the record straight: as it happens, a trawl through the archives on his site reveals that he takes Sasha Frere-Jones to task for making a similar comment about German electronic music - so how come he’s content to drop his standards and indulge in the same kind of generalisation? The fact that Sherburne makes his ill-informed comment on a widely read (if you can get it to work), MTV-sponsored site and that he sees fit to re-publish it on his own blog shows that he has no problem in spreading his disinformation around to as wide an audience as possible. Either immerse yourself in the music you write about or refrain from making lame, lazy comments about something you clearly know very little about. I’m sure you’d feel the same way if another writer appraised minimal in the same way - anyway, isn’t it just a bad copy of classic Dan Bell? Discuss…

Comments

[epm]

Yes but who's better, nu-disco or minimal?
There's only one way to find out.
FIIIIIIIGHT!!!!!!

(apologies to those who don't watch Harry Hill)

[Ronan]

hehe...poor old phil! I suspect he might be defining nu disco a bit differently to you Richard...but I don't know for sure. having said that I thought you didn't like it either, didn't you pre-empt a Prins Thomas mp3 with something like "not another lame assed space disco track thankfully"?

[Brophy]

Yes but who's better, nu-disco or minimal?
There's only one way to find out.
FIIIIIIIGHT!!!!!!
- ha ha,m but seriously, that's not the point, more to do with sweeping generalisations and double standards... i love a lot of 'minimal'

[Brophy]

hehe...poor old phil! I suspect he might be defining nu disco a bit differently to you Richard...but I don't know for sure. having said that I thought you didn't like it either, didn't you pre-empt a Prins Thomas mp3 with something like "not another lame assed space disco track thankfully"?
- yeah, i think i did, but i didn't dismiss the whole scene in one go... i love steve kotey, emperor machine, tyrrell, some of the norwegian stuff too because it is off the wall and doesn't seem beholden to the limiting structure that techno / electronic often imposes upon itself.. i was more disappointed with the fact that sherburne, who goes into great detail about techno, was willing to brush off a very wide style of music in one sentence, especially seeing as he had taken another blogger to task for doing the same thing about minimal/german electronic music... to be honest, i was kinda disappointed that he would so readily / easily dismiss it, seeing as he does comes across as an erudite writer

[Ronan]

fair enough.

tho I read it just as him criticising nu disco re-edits...on which he does have a point, there are tons of amateur white label ones that are pretty crappy coming out these days, ie comps of someone re-editing "I Feel Love" etc etc etc, I thought that's what he meant by "same old sources"...that disco re-edits are too often of classics and not remaking non disco tracks as disco...

[Steve]

*This* is why I love blogging in general. Written discourse back and forth about each other's thoughts.

Although I kind of felt Sherburne was discussing the flood of disco edits being done (some quite tastefully, holler Pilooski!), it did seem a bit over-broad. I look forward to his response.

Also, I'm glad Richard prefaced this with the "Usually, I don’t criticise other bloggers, even if I disagree vehemently with their opinions" 'graph. As much as I like these discussions, I often get paranoid that my more tossed off statements will come back to bite me.

[philip]

as i just acknowledged on my own blog, you got me. what's even more embarassing is that i think i deliberated making that critique, knowing it to be more a vague sense than anything i could quickly back up with hard facts. and you're right, i've called out other (fine) writers for making strawman generalizations & false negatives. basically i've got egg all over my face.

i will, say, though -- i didn't mean my comment as a dismissal of the entire spectrum of contemporary disco (and whatnot). i won't pretend to be totally immersed in it, and i don't love every little thing i hear (case in point: i never really "got" map of africa's "black skin blue eyed boys," but maybe that's because i like the original so much). but i get bits and bobs of things, especially what DC recordings is doing, and i've enjoyed quite a few recent bear entertainment things, blah blah. i do stand behind the comment that it's too easy to create a sense of disco affect, and that a lof edits i've seen coming out have seemed unnecessary. and i totally realize that minimal or any other genre has similar problems; minimal affect is just as easy, and just as bad. if anything in my post suggested that contemporary disco was an illegitimate, unworthy or lesser genre, that certainly wasn't my intention.

in any case, thanks for hearing me out, and thanks for the timely head-check.

[Brophy]

Hey Philip,

Thanks for the putting an acknowledgement on your blog and for the post. Sorry it took me a few days to reply, I’ve been dying with a flu – karmic payback for criticising a fellow blogger maybe?

I didn’t want to feel that I was coming down too heavily on you for the original post because your stuff is always worth a read, even if I agree or disagree with it. Its construction is second to none, and most importantly, it comes from the heart.

I would agree with you that some of the nu disco, or whatever it’s called, can be very dull and it is too easy to create spacey effects and let the groove roll ad nauseam. I love a lot of minimal too, but a lot of it is also tedious, the same set of effects and not much else - but like you said, every style or genre has its problems. I think there are some similarities between disco and minimal too, in the sense that when done well, they both work with just a few basic, well-placed elements.

Anyway, thanks the post on your blog and the post here - hope I didn’t come across too harshly when I made the first post.

Hope all is good

Richard

[Brophy]

"Usually, I don’t criticise other bloggers, even if I disagree vehemently with their opinions" 'graph. As much as I like these discussions, I often get paranoid that my more tossed off statements will come back to bite me.

yeah, that's what I prefaced the post with that part, because it's a pursuit of passion, and I don't want to insult people who share the same passion as I do, just because we disagree on a certain point...but you're right, it's great to get this kind of discourse going...

[epm]

This is all disappointingly amicable. I was hoping for house music blog wars.

I would just like to add Richard Brophy is a tattie munching techno nerd, Philip Sherburne smells of wee, and I heard the lads at Tape have very small willies.

[pipecock]

i actually think that moreso than the edits using the same old sources (though there is some of that) that alot of edits are coming out of tracks that just werent *any* good in the first place. usually a good edit needs something worth extending or just one weak part that needs cut out. these cats now are just editing things that are rare, and not even very good. i feel the same way about alot of the tunes theyre playing when they deejay. its becoming trainspotter central, moreso than just good dance music for people to enjoy!

i play a large amount of disco music, and to be honest, i find the "nu-disco" thing to be almost as awful as the "nu-minimal" thing. aside from metro area, whom are REALLY head and shoulders above all other disco revivalists (except maybe danny wang and brennan green, though i like their stuff from 5 years ago much more than their stuff today), i just dont feel it.

im much more interested in the people who are going back to chicago in the 80s where theyre dealing with mixing live and electronic music, and combining them in the spirit of keeping the feeling of disco alive as opposed to just rehashing ideas that might not have even been that good in the first place. the things that jamal moss, omar-s, theo parrish, and numerous others are doing is so much more the key to the future reclamation of house music than prins tomas, todd terje, etc are. maybe theyre not interested in that, theyre more on some hippie chill out tip. im just not interested in that.

[desy balmer]

so thats what Italo is? bugger, i was hoping to sell al my old flying records with the old italian stamp for a few bob. ah well. nu disco, nu or neo rave. whats happening? if it aint bad enough that most of the music is tripe the labelling system is rubbish also. what next?

[Brophy]

I would just like to add Richard Brophy is a tattie munching techno nerd, Philip Sherburne smells of wee, and I heard the lads at Tape have very small willies.

actually, I smell of wee!

[Brophy]

the things that jamal moss, omar-s, theo parrish, and numerous others are doing is so much more the key to the future reclamation of house music than prins tomas, todd terje, etc are. maybe theyre not interested in that, theyre more on some hippie chill out tip. im just not interested in that. - Pipecock, I'm not so sure that what the Norwegians are doing is an attempt to reclaim house music - from what I can gather, they are, as you say, hippies who like to make dance floor music. Nothing wrong with that, just don't expect a revolution from them anytime soon...

[Chameleon]

i think its great that Italo/Nu Disco are injecting something different into the clubscene at the mo, variety is always a good thing and even though iam not the biggest Italo fan i can appreciate it for what it is. from disco to disco, it doesnt matter what its called, if it got groove and you can feel it, jump in and ride the rhythm!!.... Haven't people always borrowed from the past and then given it a different spin...... minimal, electro........ in many respects disco is a real survivor..... once a detested genre (didnt the rockers burn all those records in the states once?) Sweeping generalisations are dangerous anyhow and at the end of the day its only one persons misguided view and not actual fact...... anything funded by the current MTV setup i'd be wary of........what happened to them? once a quality outfit with great music.....

[tim]

I run a small disco re-edit label and our stuff is really popular, but i have been doing re-edits for years, and dont really care for fads in music, i have seen many come and go..

I used to Remix and A&R for Jack Trax, and signed many chicago classics back in the day.. but have always said all uptempo dance music stems from Disco, and house was build on disco edits and reworks over drum machines, mixed with obscure fx and italo and euro... Everything is going full circle and i am glad kids are discovering the roots of music, rather than the latest minimal!! which will not teach them anything about production and mixing.. whereas a great underground disco record will teach you everything about record production...